117 Resonant Dignity transcript (Gregory Peck)
Michael: [00:00:00] Famous and gravy listeners, Michael Osborne here. I've got two things to say before we start today's episode. First, we could really use your help growing the show and there's a very simple thing you can do. Leave a review for Famous and Gravy on Apple Podcasts. If you're listening on Apple, you just scroll down on our show page, tap the Stars, and write a few words.
These reviews help feed Apple's algorithm and help new listeners to find our show. The second thing is, if you yourself are interested in starting your own podcast and you wanna learn about how we built Famous and Gravy, we would love to have a conversation. Our email, as always is hello@famousenggravy.com.
So two things. Please write a review, and if you're fantasizing about your own show, please reach out. That's it. Thanks again. Let's get
Nichelle: to it. This is famous and Gravy biographies from a different point of view. To participate in our opening quiz, email us at [00:01:00] hello@famousenggravy.com. Now, here's the quiz to reveal today's dead celebrity.
Michael: This person died 2003, age 87. He had craggy, good looks, lanky, grace, and measured speech. Oh my gosh. Wow. I have no idea.
Friend: I wanna say Steve Irwin, but I think you've already done Steve Irwin. We've
Michael: already done Steve Irwin, not Steve Irwin. Uh, he unfortunately did not make it to age 87. He was nominated for the Oscar five times and his range of roles was astonishing.
But his rare attempts at unsympathetic roles usually failed.
Friend: I, you know what? I'm going blank before all I could think of was Count Duku, and, I can't dunno, the actor's
Michael: name. Robin Williams. Not Count Duku, not Robin Williams. Not Robin Williams. He's on the list. We'll get to him at some point. All right. He conveyed a quiet dignity.
He had one amicable divorce and Scandal never touched him. He served as president of the Motion Picture Academy and [00:02:00] was active in the motion picture and television fund, American Cancer Society, national Endowment for the Arts and other causes. Oh my gosh. I can feel like I can
Friend: see his face. My, my brain goes to people like Richard Harris.
I, I wanna say goldwyn 'cause I'm thinking of MGM.
Michael: Yeah. Not, uh, not, not, not Goldwin. All right. His 1962 Oscar winner cast him as Atticus Finch, a small town southern lawyer who defies public sentiment to defend a black man accused of rape. Is it Gregory Peck?
Friend: Gregory Peck.
Michael: Today's dead celebrity is Gregory P.
Archival: Yes.
Making millions is not the whole ball game. Pride of workmanship is worth more artistry. Is worth more. The human imagination is a priceless resource. The public is ready for the best you can give 'em. [00:03:00] It just may be that you can make a buck and at the same time, encourage foster and commission work of quality and originality.
Michael: Welcome to Famous and Great. I'm Michael Osborne. And I'm Michelle Carr. And on this show we choose a famous figure who died in the 21st century, and we take a totally different approach to their biography. What didn't we know? What could we not see clearly? And what does a celebrity's life story teach us about ourselves today?
Gregory Peck died 2003, age 87. So I am thrilled to once again have my friend Michelle Carr onto the show. Michelle previously joined us for the Prince episode. We first met when we were working on a podcast called The Black Women of Amherst. The Webby Award-winning black women of Amherst, I should say two Time Webby, award-winning two.
Thank you. The two time [00:04:00] Webby award-winning black women of Amherst, I should say. So I wanted to have you back on the show. You and I started talking a few weeks ago. You came up with Gregory Peck. How did we land on Gregory Peck? I, I'm really curious to know like what sparked for you on this one?
Nichelle: Yeah. I wanted to do something that was connected to the history of where I'm based in la, the history of where I am now.
I'm from Northern California, but I now live in Los Angeles and I didn't really even know how much of a California kid he was. Too. Mm. But I knew that he would allow us to open that door onto Hollywood history. And he's also gorgeous.
Michael: Uh, I agree. He's a gorgeous man. So you are a producer and you have a number of projects that you're working on developing.
You're also a lawyer. One thing that came up in the Gregory Peck research is how many people go to law school because of Atticus Finch? Are you in that category by any chance? No. Like, was he a point of inspiration? Because you're on, like that's the other [00:05:00] intersection here is law and entertainment.
Nichelle: Yeah.
Law and entertainment. And social justice actually. Right? Yeah. So we'll get into it a little bit later, but I was not inspired by Gregory Peck or to Kill a Mockingbird to go into law. I was inspired by, I think, my own life experience as a black person in these United States to get into law. Yeah.
Michael: You didn't need Atticus Finch for that.
No.
Nichelle: Funny. I did not. One thing I will say, I noticed in my alma mater, basically every black student there, we didn't have minors and their second major would be a thing we had called law jurisprudence and social thought, which is like a pre-law type thing. Yeah. Like something that would usher you into law school if you were so inclined.
And even for people who had no intention of going to law school. Every black person I can remember their second major was what we called LJST. It was law. And I think it's because we understood very innately and empirically the impact that law had on our lives. Yeah. So we have an interest in it that is related to what Atticus Finch and To Kill a [00:06:00] Mockingbird is about, but did not need him to open my eyes to that.
Right,
Michael: right, right. Well, I gotta say I was initially like Gregory Peck, I don't know much. And I got into the research and at first I was like, I is there enough to talk about? But then I started double clicking into some things and there is, I think actually quite a bit to talk about. So maybe let's go for it.
Category one, grading the first line of their obituary. Gregory Peck, whose chiseled slightly melancholy, good looks, resonant, baritone, and quiet strength made him an unforgettable presence in films like To Kill a Mockingbird. Gentleman's agreement and 12 o'clock high died early yesterday at his home in Los Angeles he was 87.
Nichelle: I like it a lot. It gets at all the things that we love about him. It gets at, I think what he would wanna be remembered for the chiseled good looks like. People said it all the time. He looked like Lincoln and talked like God, it sounded like God is what they said.
Michael: I really like resonant baritone. Yeah, I actually really [00:07:00] responded to slightly melancholy.
I was thinking that one point of comparison for Gregory Peck is Jimmy Stewart. He is a contemporary and sort of of the same category of Hollywood man, same time period, similar roles. But Jimmy Stewart is a little bit bright and I mean he's got range and he's an important figure for movie lovers. But Gregory Peck has like just a little bit of darkness, just a little bit of melancholy.
I
Nichelle: thought. Hinted at something a little deeper. So when you said Jimmy Stewart, the first thing I thought was Jimmy Stewart is more hangdog. Aw, shucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I feel about Jimmy Stewart. Whereas Gregory Peck, there's a darkness to him. Well, literally dark hair and dark eyes, and his dark eyebrows, which accentuated all of that.
You do feel that he's thoughtful and brooding, like there's always something going on inside him that you can tell. Okay,
Michael: so the first half of the sentence mostly pays attention to his outward appearance. Chiseled, slightly melancholy, good looks, unforgettable presence. Is he unforgettable [00:08:00] because he's very handsome, or is he unforgettable because these movies are unforgettable or because there's something more to him?
Like what do you think about that term?
Nichelle: I think all of those things, I think the films are unforgettable. His performance in them is unforgettable. I can't imagine anyone else performing in those films because he can portray. That quiet strength, right? He can portray sensitivity and still be strong. One thing I do think they missed is his height, actually.
His height added to his gravitas. I mean, commanding presence is another term that was used for him a lot.
Michael: That's a good term. 'cause he, I mean, in Moby Dick, he's Ahab, he's a captain. You know, he plays a general,
Nichelle: a 12 o'clock high or MacArthur. I mean, he played a general, several times guns and varone like, right?
I mean, he, he,
Michael: he has innate leadership. The last thing that I really want to cover on the first line of the obit is the movies. I don't know that I would put all three of these on the same plane the way they do to Kill a Mockingbird Gentleman's agreement and [00:09:00] 12 o'clock High. I think that you have to love Hollywood history and old time movies to know gentleman's agreement and 12 o'clock high.
I think To Kill a Mockingbird does stand separate and apart in terms of how he's remembered,
Nichelle: so I love that they included these three films. I agree with you that the other two are not as well known as To Kill a Mockingbird by any means, which is why even though it's the latest and chronology, it's mentioned first, like it absolutely has pride of place and deserves that.
I think they're doing a couple of things here. I think they're tipping their hat. To the films that he enjoyed. You know, he was in what, like over 50 films or something like that. And when you ask him his favorites, these three show up in the list. Invariably, I think they're also using this moment like we're, you know, I think we'll probably get into the fact that a lot of people don't know a lot about Gregory Peck outside of Say To Kill a Mockingbird.
Maybe MacArthur. Maybe Moby Dick
Michael: Omen, I think has a special place for the horror movie crowd too. The omen. Oh yeah,
Nichelle: the omen. Of course,
Archival: there are those who will die for him.[00:10:00]
There are those who will kill for him. Who is he? What does he want? Gregory Blue Remic the
Michael: Omen Cape Fear is the other one I thought might have come. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because mean Cape Fears. Yeah.
Nichelle: Cape Fear and Moby Dick kind of weave through his career at different points. Right.
Michael: Moby Dick is the other one I actually would've considered I including here.
But again, that'd be weird 'cause it's another adaptation. So I interrupted though. So you like
Nichelle: these particular three? Why? I think one, they're tipping their hat to the ones he liked best, but I also think they're tipping their hat to his social activism and his political activism. So without having time to mention it in the sentence, they get it in by choosing films that all had.
Great social impact. Yeah. And then also introducing folks who may not know these films, like get in on this,
Michael: you know? Yeah, I agree. I think that's a really astute observation that this [00:11:00] man had important roles, but also represented a level of virtuousness and dignity. These are the movies you would single out, even though he is in other places.
All right. God, you've really talked me up on this obit. Do you have your score? I'm waffling between a nine and a 10. Personally. I wanna hear where you went.
Nichelle: I mean, probably might goal like nine, nine and a half. 'cause I think the only ding is they didn't mention how his height really stood out, especially among actors, but they did what they could, I think, while being concise.
Michael: I think that I would give him a nine for a similar reason, not just the offscreen stuff, but I think it actually doesn't quite get at what a big deal he was once upon a time. I mean, we are talking upper echelons of a plus listers, like he really owned the city for a couple
Nichelle: decades there. They don't reference him as a proper movie star.
Right? He was so famous. That he and just so big, he lived through McCarthyism and it never touched him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:12:00] Like he, they did not come for him. Right? There were people around him who were come for and were taken down and he wasn't a paragon of bravery, but he never named names. You could be drawn into this and he just was not.
Michael: I think we're starting to bleed into five things, so I think we're aligned here. Nine and a nine. It's very close to excellent, but it's just very, very good. So let's move on. Category two, five things I love about you Here, Michelle and I will develop a list of five things that offer a different angle on who this person was and how they lived.
What's your thing? Number one.
Nichelle: My think number one is gentleman's agreement, both the film and what it represents. His first film was 1944. Gentleman's Agreement came out in 1947. Mm-hmm. He was nominated for a best actor Oscar for that film, and the film won Best picture of that year.
Michael: I don't think most people know this movie.
So
Nichelle: very early on he showed audiences who he is and set the tone for his whole career. So Gentleman's Agreement is a film about antisemitism. In this film, he plays a [00:13:00] character of Philip Green. He's a journalist and he's been tasked with writing a piece on antisemitism. It dawns upon him, he's like, wait a minute.
What would a Jew think about antisemitism? How do Jewish people feel about this? He has a very close friend who's Jewish and he is like, we grew up together. We're so much the same. We're totally parallel. I wanna know what he would think. And then he has the presence of mind to say, well, I can't just say, Hey Dave, tell me everything you think about antisemitism.
Like he realized that would be silly and stupid and insulting. Mm-hmm. So he realizes, you know what, let me just live as a Jew for a while. And so he does that and he comments, he's like dark eyes, dark hair. They won't know. And it totally works. And you hear in gentleman's agreement the view of prejudice and bigotry.
From the perspective of those feeling it, which is so different in 1947 or when it in 1947, this movie is decades and decades old and they're having conversations that I as a [00:14:00] black person and I know other black people, and the movement conversations that we're still trying to have today are being had in gentleman's agreement.
And so for me, it sets the tone of who he is as a person, how his beliefs, his convictions, and his career gentleman's agreement is the film about race for our time not to kill a Mockingbird. I think gentleman's agreement should be the film that we hold up on a pedestal that is the paradigm for race of his catalog.
Right. It's so funny when you read about him and about the film, everyone including himself talks about like, oh, it was so groundbreaking then, but it feels really dated for now. Like everyone's quite apologetic about it and I'm watching it and I'm like, I'm sorry, dated how? Like, I think what they're thinking is To Kill A Mockingbird came out in 1962, so right as the Civil Rights movement was catching fire nationwide, like before JFK was assassinated, it's about racial violence, right?
So it's about all these hot button issues at the time that these hot button issues are happening. So [00:15:00] I think it feels like it's more of the time and it feels more gripping, whereas Gentleman's Agreement doesn't have any violence like that. But what it has is the subtlety, the people who wrote Gentleman's agreement, the writer, director, and producer, were all Jewish.
Mm-hmm. So Gregory Peck's character says to his fiance, Kathy, who was just on the wrong side of history, right. She means, well she's your very, very typical, nice white lady. Mm-hmm. Who really doesn't wanna get involved.
Archival: So Phil says, I've come to see the lots of nice people who aren't people who despise it and detest it and deplored and protest their own innocence.
Help it along. And I wonder why it grows. People who would never beat up a Jew or your kike get a child. People who think that antisemitism is something a way off in some dark crackpot place with low class morons. That's the biggest discovery I've made about this whole business, Kathy, the good people and nice people.
Nichelle: And then one of Philip's coworkers later on who does get it and really looks down upon Kathy for not getting it. She says, the [00:16:00] Kathy's everywhere afraid of
Archival: getting the gate from their little groups of nice people. They make little clucking sounds of disapproval, but they want you and Uncle John to stand up and yell and take sides and fight.
But did they fight? Oh no. Kathy and Harry and Jane and all of them, they scold Bilbo twice a year and think they fought the good fight for democracy in this country. They haven't got the guts to take the step from talking to action. One little action on one little front. Sure. I know it's not the whole answer, but it's gotta start somewhere and it's gotta be with action, not pamphlets, not even with your series.
It's gotta be with people, nice people, rich people, poor people, big and little people. It's gotta be quick.
Nichelle: It resonates now so much.
Michael: It feels like a like text to study that has a lot more prescient and utility in it than I realized. And it's actually a really good segue into my thing number two. So I wrote a Cinephile Cinephile or a movie loving [00:17:00] movie star.
I wanna take you into my research journey a little bit. So Gregory Peck kept showing up on all of these A FI lists American Film Institute lists. He's on the hundred stars list, number 12 above Gene Kelly, Lawrence Olivier, and John Wayne. There's also a A FI Heroes and Villains list where Atticus Finch is rated number one as the greatest American hero of American film of all time.
Indiana Jones is two, James Bond is three. That's the kind of pedestal they're putting him on. And then there's this wonderful a FI lifetime of chamber bin award. He gets, I'm like, why is Gregory Peck getting all this love from a FI? Then I discovered in 1967 is when a FI is established, and he is the very first chairman of the board.
So I was like, oh, maybe that's why he's ranking high on all these a FI lists. But then I stepped back from it. And one thing that I think is consistent throughout his work, on and [00:18:00] off screen, is how much he's trying to say movies matter.
Archival: There've been a lot of glamorous, uh, financial news in the papers lately.
Multimedia conglomerates, billions of dollars in assets, and much more such merges are to come. So, so we are told, well, I would like to hear some glamorous talk about elevating the quality of films and television
entertainment that in the words of TSE enlarges, the sympathies that stimulates the mind and the spirit that warms the heart, punctures the balloons of hypocrisy, greed and sham tickles the funny bone and leaves us with a glow that comes when we have been well entertained.
Michael: There's a lot I love about Gregory Peck, but the fact that he is such an eloquent spokesperson for this medium and for this form was [00:19:00] just something I fell into and I found it dovetailed off your thing.
Number one gentleman's agreement.
Nichelle: Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. I can see why he might've been say top of mind as they're doing these lists, but I also think that he has earned it. He totally earned it. I mean, five
Michael: Oscar nominations and one winner. I mean a one win. Yeah. Like he's got a great catalog.
Nichelle: Yeah, absolutely. And he is there trying to tell a story and trying to communicate to the audience and he commented on the fact that Atticus Finch won number one hero. 'cause he was like, can you believe that? Like not some swashbuckling, shoot him up, whatever. Not that guy, but quiet, old, nerdy lawyer. He didn't say nerdy, but quiet lawyer.
Atticus Finch.
Archival: Yeah.
Nichelle: And he's right. Let's talk
Michael: about To Kill a Mockingbird, you got some stuff to say. I think we need to pause and talk about Atticus Finch.
Nichelle: I think that when you talk about To Kill a Mockingbird, you know it's interesting. Gregory Peck wrote an introduction to one of the printings of the book 'cause he and Harper Lee became very close and he talked about how the small town in the south reminded him of his small town.[00:20:00]
Archival: I had a small town, uh, upbringing. I was a kid who climbed trees and rolled around, curled up in a rubber tire. My father was not the town lawyer, but he was the town druggist. There was only one of everything. So, uh, it all fell into place and it was like swimming downstream the whole time.
Nichelle: He speaks about it with this like quaint detachment and this romanticism, and I think that's how a lot of people look at to Kill a Mockingbird, because Atticus Finch gives them an uns.
Unblemished hero to aspire to, right? Yeah. And so you can look at that and see yourself as Atticus Finch and feel like all is right in the world. For me, as a black person and just speaking for myself, the film is completely enraging because I'm looking at it from the standpoint of the injustice being done, being the object of the injustice.
There's no quaint detachment, there's no romanticism. And I will say Gregory Peck even understood that. 'cause when he talked about how it reminded him of his small town, he's like, yeah, [00:21:00] but these small towns have a lot of darkness. But I think when people look at To Kill a Mockingbird, they just see this hero Atticus, and that, again, the, the perspective of a 7-year-old little white girl is gonna bring to it.
Michael: But wait, that sounded more to me like a critique of the story than of the character. Yeah. Or, or, or did I
Nichelle: hear that wrong? I mean, yeah. No, I don't, I don't have a problem with Atticus. Atticus is not wrong. It's just that the film and how it feels comfortable for white folks Yeah. Yeah. Is wrong when it's not comfortable at all.
Right, right, right. You never hear the words of Tom Robinson, the black man. You never hear his family speak at all. But let me just say this. Yeah. Because I buried the lead on what is the real problem with To Kill A Mockingbird, this premise that it's a sin to kill a Mockingbird because a Mockingbird doesn't destroy your crops, it doesn't hurt your farms.
All it wants to do is sing for you. And please, you and I am like you. That is not what black people are here for. [00:22:00] Just the condescension. You know what I mean is horrific. Like black people, we are here living our lives. We would like you to leave us be like, even to this day, like I struggle with that.
Where I'm in places where I know I'm seen as an equal and you know, it's nowhere near what it was like then, but still my friend was talking about How To Kill A Mockingbird epitomizes a lot of these films about race, where we're seeing black justice or injustice through the white gaze, always through the perspective of white people.
Never how we feel about it, but how they feel about, oh my goodness, is that, I
Michael: mean, it feels like that happens a lot where something gets elevated by those who have power, right? Mm-hmm. And then comes to take on a level of importance of like, well wait a second, it's, it ain't perfect. Yeah. Yeah.
Nichelle: It becomes lauded and canonized because it's comfortable, it comports and matches with the perspective of the folks in power.
And so, but does
Michael: push against what existed at the time. I mean, it is important in that way.
Nichelle: Yes, it, yeah, it absolutely made strides for the time, for sure. And it did a lot of work and bringing people along who weren't there yet. [00:23:00]
Michael: All right, well let's get back to, uh, Gregory Peck and your thing number three.
So what do you got for number three? My thing number
Nichelle: three is doing the Bork King. The Bork King. This is, uh, okay. Doing the Bork.
Michael: This is in reference to Robert Bork. It's got, this is in
Nichelle: reference to Robert Bork. It is in reference to the campaign against his nomination for the Supreme Court. He was nominated by Ronald Reagan.
That nomination was very controversial because he was a very controversial figure. He essentially was against the Civil rights movement. He wanted there to be power for Congress to invalidate any Supreme Court ruling that they disagreed with. I mean, it's just shocking stuff from the perspective of an American democracy.
And so Gregory Peck participated with a few others and he narrated the thing a television spot, highlighting all of this about Robert Bork.
Archival: This is Gregory Peck. Robert Bork wants to be a Supreme Court justice. But the record shows that he has a strange idea of what [00:24:00] justice is. He defended poll taxes and literacy tests, which kept many Americans from voting.
He oppose the civil rights law that ended whites only signs at lunch counters. He doesn't believe the Constitution protects your right to privacy, and he thinks that freedom of speech does not apply to literature and art and music. Robert Bork could have the last word on your rights as citizens, but the Senate has the last word on him.
Please urge your senators to vote against the Bork nomination because if Robert Bork wins his seat on the Supreme Court, it'll be for life his. Not yours.
Nichelle: That television spot was part of a larger campaign that meant that his nomination failed. And since then it's become this fearsome political phenomenon.
To get Borked getting borked is the idea that a takedown campaign will come against you and will be successful. And Gregory Peck, he narrated with that voice of God. Yeah, narrated that TV spot that killed it.
Michael: I [00:25:00] love how much, it sounds like a curse word, getting borked. I mean, I think it is hard to actually overstate Gregory Peck's activism 'cause he was involved in all kinds of political causes, nuclear disarmament, civil rights, cancer, um, anti-Vietnam.
I mean, he is very involved as a political activist.
Nichelle: Yeah. So he got the Medal of Freedom from Lyndon Johnson, but was also against the Vietnam War. He had a son who served in combat in the Vietnam War. He made a film the trial of the Caton V nine against the Vietnam War and found himself on Nixon's master enemies list.
So there's a smaller initial enemies list where Paul Newman was the only actor, but of course, Nixon kept adding to that list and it got bigger and bigger and bigger, and Gregory Peck found himself on that list.
Michael: Love it. Okay, let me give you my thing number four. We've kind of already talked about it so we don't have to hit it too hard.
I wrote, beyond Atticus, you have the right to an attorney, as we've talked about in Gentleman's Agreement To Kill a Mockingbird. There's also a movie called The Paradigm Case, where he represents a defense attorney. A [00:26:00] recurring theme throughout his work is that we are all entitled to a defense. Part of the reason I like that is that that's how I've come to see Famous and Gravy, that when we get to the end and we present the argument for why you should want this life, it is as if we are defense attorneys.
And I should say one other example that we haven't quite talked about is the House on un-American activities. This is McCarthyism. He does have a quote, I hold no brief for communists, but I believe in and will defend their right to act independently within the law. I question whether members of the committee are interested in defending our form of government or whether they are attempting to suppress political opinion at odds with their own.
I think the Gregory Peck package has that tall, handsome, quiet, dignity embodied in these roles. And reminds me of a principle that honestly, in 2025, I think we need to work to resurrect. I don't think we do act like everybody deserves a fair hearing and a fair defense. [00:27:00] And that part of the way the justice system is perverted these days, it's a question of how much justice you can afford.
Right? And there is something about these recurring roles that, for me, remind me of a principle that I really, really care about that I don't think we talk a lot about that we are all entitled to a defense. So that was my thing, number four.
Archival: Mm-hmm.
Michael: Alright. What do you have
Nichelle: for thing number five? My thing number five is solitary extrovert.
Hmm. So Gregory Peck, I mean, he's an actor. He loves to be around people, but he prefers kind of more close friends than a huge, huge party. But he was an only child born in California, as we said, comes from a broken home. His parents separated when he was three, and they divorced soon after he moved around.
He was kind of shuttled around between California and then St. Louis and then back, and then he went to Catholic military boarding school for four years. Which actually was wonderful for him. The routine gave him a sense of structure and a sense of purpose. And a sense of meaning that he ended up carrying with him throughout his life.
Michael: [00:28:00] He's very self-possessed. Yeah, right. I mean he is like, he seems to have self-discipline and self-knowledge. He was on the crew team and college Exactly. At Cal? Yeah. Yeah,
Nichelle: he, he was on the crew. We rowers just call it the crew. The crew. I'm sorry. So I also rode in college. So I love that connection with Gregory Peck and he was chosen to be the stroke of the boat, which is the leader of the boat.
The stroke very literally sets the pace for the boat. Yeah. So, but he has this quote, and it perfectly exemplifies how Gregory Peck coped with a difficult family life, which is, if your place in the family is not secure, it's best to express gratitude.
Michael: Hmm. Interesting. How do you interpret that? Unpack that quote for me.
How do you interpret that?
Nichelle: For me, it was that he knew that he could not take for granted that people would be there to take care of him. You know, his mom left him with his dad, then came and got him again, and then pretty much left him with his grandmother. And then was like, you know, his mom was just never really ready to be a mom when he lived with his father.
The second time his father worked nights, [00:29:00] so they saw each other in passing kind of at breakfast. That was it. Yeah. He watched his grandmother die of cancer when he was very young, like watched her suffer through the whole thing, which is the root of his devotion to the American Cancer Society afterwards.
So it wasn't a given that people would be there to take care of you. So he understood to make it easy for people to take care of you, express gratitude, be grateful, earn your place right by doing good, by doing the right thing. I mean, even in Hollywood, to the extent he played by the rules, like we talk about how Scandal never touched him.
One of the reasons why Scandal never touched him is he learned how to curry favor with the two major go columnists. You know, he made sure that he was always on their good side and they were looking to take care of him, right? Yeah.
Michael: He ain't without sin. I think we'll get into that in the
Nichelle: next category.
Yeah. So that, I think that's where that's coming from, is that you really have to kind of earn your place and make it easy for people to take care of you because you will be on your own.
Michael: I love that. Well, okay, fantastic. I think, let's summarize. So number one, you said gentleman's agreement [00:30:00] number two. I said a movie loving movie star.
A cinephile in a file. Number three, doing the Bork, is that what you said? That's, I don't know. It makes me giggle. I'm immature. Number four. I said beyond Atticus. And number five, you said solitary extrovert. Excellent list. Okay, let's take a break. All right. Category three, one love. In this category, Michelle and I will each choose one word or phrase that characterizes this person's loving relationships.
First, we will review what we know about the marriages and the kids. So two marriages. The first was to Greta in 1942. Gregory was 26 when they got married. They were divorced at 39. She was five years older. Uh, they had three children together. And then marriage number two, as in 1955. Shortly after ending with Greta, the affair began before Greg Ru was 39 when they got married.
They remained married until his death at age 87. Veronique was 16 years younger, and they had two children as well. So [00:31:00] five kids overall. What did you come up with?
Nichelle: So for this one, I started out with moving on up, but I changed it to Hollywood's story 'cause I think that applies to both his marriages and his children.
Yeah. Whereas moving on up is how I feel about his marriages. So he was very young when he met Greta, as one biographer said he was lonely, riddled with insecurity about his future and often at a loose end. Before Greta, he had a girlfriend who was the one who pushed him to apply to go to Berkeley. So this idea of him having these women who helped him forward, who he then moved on, like helped him get strong, and once he got strong, he left them for the newer, hotter, sexier model Uhhuh.
That's him. And that's so typical of Hollywood. He even says, I often wonder if just about every successful man doesn't have behind him a first love who is primarily responsible for his success.
Archival: Mm.
Nichelle: He got very famous and very wealthy, and Greta just couldn't keep up [00:32:00] with his life as a movie star. And he met Veronique and moved on, and he did the same, like his high school girlfriend moved on from her, which feels so typical.
That's so typical Hollywood,
Michael: right? It's predictable. So
Nichelle: he has five children, four sons, one daughter.
Michael: Yeah.
Nichelle: His oldest son commits suicide at the age of 30, and his oldest son was known for being this. Spitting image of him, and one of his old girlfriends of the old son says, she's like, even now, even after him passing, every once in a while, I'll watch gentleman's agreement because it reminds me so much of what Jonathan, that first son was like and looked like when he was young.
And Jonathan was apparently a lovable character. He was. Popular. He was beautiful. He had his choice of women and he never felt like he could find his footing and find his own way, which
Michael: is also very Hollywood story.
Nichelle: That's the thing I read, kind of like a, a list, like a countdown of how many famous stars have children who either died in tragedy, like say an overdose like Paul Newman's son, or actually committed suicide.
And it is [00:33:00] such a high prevalence that also feels like a Hollywood story to me.
Michael: Uh, one of my, uh, friends from California, he was in the industry for a number of years and he said the exact same thing. I mean, it's just, it's such a burden to be the child of a celebrity, the suicide of his son, Gregory Peck talks about it just a little bit to say, you know, not a day pass is probably not an hour pass that I don't, that doesn't come up for me.
And that sounds very true. What's also interesting. To me is, that's around the time Oman comes out, which is about a troubled 5-year-old who's like possessed. Right. And that movie winds up having kind of a, a crazy success if you see interviews of Gregory Peck right before and after his son suicide, he doesn't seem obviously traumatized by what is obviously a traumatizing event.
So he's got a poker face and I think that there's a lot we don't know about what's going on underneath.
Nichelle: Yeah. I think everyone agreed that he went into a deep, deep depression and he just fights through it. I mean, we
Michael: didn't really talk about it. I think he's a good actor. [00:34:00] I would not put him as like transcendent.
He doesn't disappear into roles for me. But you think he's a better actor than that, it sounds
Nichelle: like. I think he's a better actor than that. I think it's stylistic.
Michael: I, I think the movie star actor divide is a little bit hard to parse out with. Yeah. Somebody who has such stature and has such, you know, quiet dignity as they describe in the obit and, and grace and, and attractiveness.
Nichelle: I think back then. Stylistically folks were looking for more fireworks from him. This is why people think that his performance of Captain Ahab in 1956 and Moby Dick wasn't enough, even he didn't think it was enough, and I was like, he has fallen for the Okie-doke because no less than Jack Lemon, who we know is one of the greatest of actors, really Extols P'S talents and gifts as an actor, he says
Archival: it isn't gussied up with 15 shadings and sly little looks and uh, and all of that.
It's very pure. It's like a light that's on In a sense, he reminds me of Hank Fonda because neither of them are known for the great [00:35:00] explosive scene. They give a simple overall performance. And believe me, simple is not only better, it's more difficult.
Nichelle: And I think we see that even in Moby Dick. Like I think his performance in Moby Dick is amazing.
Like there are lines from Moby Dick that just live rent free in my head. Like
Archival: the white whale tasks me, he, hes.
Michael: I've told you my claim to fame on Moby Dick, right?
Nichelle: No. What is it?
Michael: You don't know this. I am a direct descendant to firm in Melville. Get out. I, he is my great-great-great grandfather. Yeah. Yeah. My, I was talking to my dad, uh, before this episode.
I'm like, who does the better Ahab? Is it because Patrick Stewart? Uh, yeah. Picard did it. And he's like, oh, definitely Greg back. He's like, he, but my dad's furious at the adaptation. It's like, did did you read the goddamn book? That's my dad. He sounds like Hank Hill. But yeah. So, all right, let me give you my one word.
I wrote Amity Island. Uh, this was in, actually in reference to Jaws, that's the island in Jaws. I [00:36:00] went down a bit of a rabbit hole with the word amicable 'cause his first divorce was described as amicable. And he does maintain a friendship with Greta for the rest of his life. He seemed actually like the kind of guy who could, you could be friends with after a breakup.
Mm-hmm. And I was sort of struck by how lovingly and warm everybody talks about him. I. I didn't know what the term amicus, brief meant. Uh, we friend of the court, I thought, yeah, friend of the court and then Amicus kind of sounded like Atticus. Anyway, I am Amity Island because I basically think he's got a, a close community, a good home, even though he's probably surrounded by sharks in Hollywood.
In Hollywood. So that was my simple one word. Glove.
Nichelle: Yeah, no, he was surrounded by sharks and he navigated it very well.
Michael: Hollywood story got at what was going on and what his life looked like behind the scenes. In as much as we know. So, all right, next category, net worth. In this category, we will each write down our numbers ahead of time.
We'll talk a little bit about our reasoning. We'll look up the net worth number in real time to see who's closest. And finally, we will place this person on the famous and [00:37:00] gravy net worth leaderboard. Sometimes, Michelle, I spend a tremendous amount of time researching this category. I did not know how to think about Gregory Peck's net worth other than the omen.
It sounded like he had pretty significant points on, he took a pay cut to do that movie, and then it wound up being kind of a breakout success. I also think that just the longevity of Gregory Peck had me skewing towards a slightly higher number. Did you add anything into the mix?
Nichelle: I remember learning that at one point he got to the level of earning a million dollars in salary per film.
He did produce some films, but there were films he wanted to see get made. So that's why he did it, which makes a lot of sense. And then he probably, I think, donated quite a bit. He gave to, cause he was involved, but he founded the La Jolla Playhouse. He also established the film school at Trinity, Trinity College.
Dublin got Martin Scorsese to be on the board. That's pretty cool. So, um, he would've given a check to get that off the ground.
Michael: Yeah.
Nichelle: Should we give our numbers?
Michael: Yeah, let's go ahead and do it. So [00:38:00] Michelle Carr wrote down 50 million. Michael Osborne wrote down 25 million. All right. The actual net worth number for Gregory Peck.
60 million. Well done. All right. Michelle wins. I thought it might be 60, like I had 60
Nichelle: in my head, but I was like, that might be too much. Like, I just don't know if he got that close. It's a
Michael: great number for him, and I think it does to the previous point, begin to capture like his stature in the industry.
Let's place him on the famous eng gravy net worth leaderboard. So at 60 million, this is an interesting table. This puts him at position 28. This is in the 35th percentile. Other people at the famous Eng Gravy net worth dinner table include Johnny Cash, Olivia Newton John. Jerry Springer and Mary Tyler Moore.
So I love that Jerry Springer's there. Oh God. Just
Nichelle: tough. It's tough. I, I can't imagine that Gregory Peck wouldn't look at him and just be like, you have cultivated and encouraged the worst, most basis. [00:39:00] You have ruined us instincts of humans. Yeah. You are the scourge of humanity, I would think. You know, I
Michael: think I agree.
I also think that if anybody is there to defend Jerry Springer and his life, when we recorded that episode, I tried to channel my inner Atticus Finch on behalf of Jerry Springer. Oh, wow. Okay. I kind of in, in that way. It's kind of perfect. So $60 million. Well done Gregory Pack. Let's move on. Category five.
Little Lebowski, urban Achievers.
Archival: They're the little Lebowski. Urban achievers. Yeah. The achievers.
Michael: Yes. And proud. We are of all of them in this category, we each choose a trophy and award, a cameo, an impersonation, or some other form of a hat tip that shows a different side of this person. What do you got, Michelle?
Nichelle: So in 1991, he won the A CLU of Southern California Bill of Rights Award. Oh, this is close to
Michael: home.
Nichelle: Yeah, this is extremely close to home. But I will say the Bill of Rights award is for people who have done something extraordinary for social [00:40:00] justice, whether over their career or in a particular thing.
It's an annual recognition by the A CLU of Southern California. It's our flagship. We're known for it. And I say we, I should clarify. I serve on the board of directors for the A CLU of Southern California, have been on the board for 10 years now and counting. And during part of my time in service on that board, I was the co-chair of those, of the Bill of Rights gala.
I've seen these up close and personal. They're very dear to my heart and they're very meaningful. It's an opportunity for us to highlight our work. It's an opportunity for us to bring in new supporters to cultivate and create new ambassadors. So we give this award to these celebrities and they become ambassadors for us.
So he won in 1991, which is just fabulous. And I love the quote of him winning in the LA Times. So it's not a quote from him. It's a quote from an A CLU staffer who says, Peck received the Bill of Rights Award for his long history of supporting civil rights and quote for being that handsome when he is that old, said, an A CLU staffer.
And I'm like, damn, [00:41:00] right.
Michael: I'm glad they got that in. Yeah. All right. I went with the 1991 Cape Fear, the Martin Scorsese version for My Lebowski. So the story of this is there's the original Cape Fear, which Gregory Peck is in. Then Martin Scorsese reimagines it in 1991, and both Robert Mitchum and Gregory Peck have a cameo on opposite sides of the storyline.
The thing I love about it most is The Simpsons parody.
Archival: Robert, if released, would you pose any threat to one Bart Simpson? Bart Simpson, the spirited little scam, who twice foiled my evil schemes and sent me to this dank UIN soaked L Old. What about that tattoo on your chest? Doesn't it say die, but die? No, that's German for the Bart.
The
Michael: no one who speaks German could be an evil man. [00:42:00] I'll never be able to watch this Scorsese version without thinking about sideshow Bob. It's gotta be a top five, uh, episode for me. So what I'm really calling out is The Simpsons. But the other piece of it for me as a Lebowski Award is that you mentioned Gregory Peck and Scorsese collaborating on the film school in Ireland.
That I, I find that interesting 'cause it, like he did seem to have a kind of aversion to violence and I was curious to know how Gregory Peck viewed Martin Scorsese movies. They are often very violent. So anyway, that was my Lebowski Award. Gregory Peck's short cameo in the 1991 version of Cape Fear. All right, let's take one more break.
Category six words to live by In this category, we will each choose a quote. These are either words that came out of this person's mouth or was said about them. I had a hard time finding a good one here. He wrote at one point, I'm not a do-gooder. It embarrassed me to be classified as a humanitarian. I simply take [00:43:00] part in activities that I believe in.
I feel like I see a humility in Gregory Peck, and I think it's authentic. I think it's born out in his behavior. This whole brooding, quiet, dignity, quality in him. I also see a sort of balance in terms of I am wanting to do the right thing and not claim an excessive amount of credit for that. Yeah, I admire that and appreciate that and honestly, I think, you know, to make it a famous and gravy thing.
It's something I really struggle with. We are all telling a story about what great people we are inside and we're all lying to ourselves about that, right? Like we're all less perfect than we think we are, and more fallible than we realize. And this quote captured that, you know, as we've been going through, there's a lot of like virtuousness in Gregory Peck.
This was couching that, I don't know. What's your impression?
Nichelle: I liked that quote. It resonates for me because I think the idea is that you're doing good because it's the right thing to do. You're not doing it for the congratulations. You're not [00:44:00] doing it for the clicks. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And that's what he's saying.
And the idea of being embarrassed by the gratitude coming towards you. 'cause again, I think he emanates gratitude and he comes from a place of gratitude with a lot of this.
Archival: Yeah. It's
Nichelle: funny because like I was saying, I kind of had to come full circle on him. 'cause when I learned about some of his personal life stuff, like his moving on up tendencies and just how he was like a red blooded American male.
Like he slept with several of his co-stars and he and it toured affair with Ingrid Bergman. Right.
Michael: Woo. But I guess I like what you pointed out about him being a little bit embarrassed about it. I think that there is a lot of evidence of service, which is ultimately what I feel. Like I'm striving for, and I always run into the trap of, as soon as I start thinking I'm a good person, I've had the paradoxical thought that I've now made it about me that I'm doing a good thing.
And I feel like that is the war with the ego that we're all up against. And so there was something in this quote that captured that paradox for me. So, yeah,
Nichelle: no, I think it's right. And I think it's a human [00:45:00] paradox. Yeah. He, uh, the way that he appears and comes across to us in his roles and as a person is who he truly is.
He's no saint right, but he really is that person that he portrays, like he said all the time, that Atticus Finch was the closest character to him. And other people said that about him, that it was the closest character to who he really is.
Michael: I think I'll make one more point on this. I can't think of anybody today who strikes me as having the same sort of like approval rating, but also represents the same sort of dignity.
I'm sure there's examples out there that I'm not thinking of, but in as much as Famous and Gravy is about celebrity as symbolism, he is actually quite a striking symbol without a whole lot of
Nichelle: points of comparison. He does stand apart in that he's someone that he has that approval rating, but without being saccharine, he feels relatable even still.
So this actually leads into my quote, which I, yeah, what's your quote? What's your quote? What do you got? So this is from his second son, Steven, who seemed to me to have the most comfortable relationship with his father. Mm. I think that might've had something to do with Steven being the one who went.
Through combat. [00:46:00]
Michael: Yeah. Okay. Is he the one? He's the
Nichelle: vet. Yeah, he's the vet and he still works with vets today. And one of the things we didn't talk about is that Gregory Peck, because he had a kind of a back slash hip injury, couldn't serve in the war, and so he was around when all these other stars were not around In the forties, he was there to take up space, and that's part of how his stardom got kickstarted.
So here's Steven's quote, which I think absolutely nails his dad. He says, people see his great strength and heroism on screen. I got to see the other side, a man of enormous sensitivity, sometimes a sensitivity. So great that he would mask it with his strength. People could subconsciously pick up on that vulnerability and they loved him all the more for it.
Boom. Yeah. I feel like he nailed it like he nailed his dad and you can only see that when you love your father without the conflict that I think his other children felt.
Michael: I mean that that is the dance of acting is to have the emotions right in the subsurface so that the audience can feel 'em and can sort of like see into them without [00:47:00] it being excessively transparent.
You wanna see the like complex human face sheer. Love it. All right. Great quote. All right, let's go. Move on. Category seven, man in the Mirror. This category asks a fairly simple question. Did this person like their reflection? Yes or no? This is not about beauty, but rather a question of self-confidence versus self-judgment.
I didn't have to think too hard about this one. I see an incredibly self-possessed, confident man. You quote a second ago, there is sensitivity and vulnerability. Of course there is. He's human. There has to be that for any kind of actor. But sometimes when somebody is next level handsome, I'm like, I wonder what are they compensating?
I did not have that second thought here. I went a very confident yes, but do you have a hot take or did you see the same thing?
Nichelle: I don't have a hot take, but I said yes, but only just, oh really? Okay. Yeah. So you're making it a little more complicated than I did. All right. Only just 'cause remember he came from all that insecurity and loneliness from his childhood that never really left him even in Hollywood circles.
Like he wanted to hang [00:48:00] out with his betters, but he was also intimidated. Like he would hang out with ambassadors and stuff. So for me, I said yes, but only just, and I feel like it's only because he felt he had done the work to actually earn his self-worth. Like I think he had to prove to himself as much as to others that he was worthy of this.
That's part of the Catholic military school of bringing where he got to prove to himself that he was valuable and that. His reflection is something he wanted to see in the mirror.
Michael: I wanna ask a, a kind of weird question. What do you think his love language was like? How did he feel? Validation? How did he feel?
A sense of self-worth. I've really been thinking about how this applies to, to, to certain friends and certain people in my life right now. I mean, there's that book, the Five Love Languages. I think that offers an okay framing and still sign off on the framing more or less.
Nichelle: Can I hedge and give two? I think there are two for him.
I think it's words of affirmation because he wanted to be a writer. And as an actor you're always taking the text, you're always dealing in words and you're talking a lot, [00:49:00] right? Yeah. Like you're talking to people are talking to you. So I think, I think words would help, but I think even more than that is quality time.
Michael: That's the one I was thinking of. Think. I think he's a quality, quality time kind of figure. I think he just wants to like spend time in the presence of people he cares about. It doesn't even almost matter what the activity is. I totally that he actually said that about
Nichelle: Veronique 'cause their marriage lasted his whole life.
He's like, we will just spend time together sometimes 24 hours a day. I think a
Michael: lot about this with my kids, but I think about this with everybody. I certainly think about it in the age of social media, how much we mistake tension for love. 'cause as kids we, we need attention and. Upstream of all of the love languages, they are all different forms of attention.
And if Gregory Peck offers us a, a life story of somebody who has self-assuredness and balance and a lot of admirable qualities and contribution and so forth, then I, you know, I kind of wanna know how he experienced love so that he could get there, which is I think why I asked the question. All right, next category, cocktail coffee or cannabis.
[00:50:00] This is where we ask which one would we most wanna do with our dead celebrity. I'll lead here. I don't know the scene exactly, I was thinking I want coffee. And part of it is that he does talk and moves at a pace where I'm looking for a stimulant because he's just a little slower than how I move talk.
Uh, you know, I mean, he's got a deliberate. Way of speaking and you're sort of like, okay, okay.
Nichelle: Which think that's, that is again, that's about him thinking about every word to make sure he doesn't say the wrong thing. Yeah. That comes from the same place.
Michael: I get a little bit of like meticulousness, which I admire and I do not share.
I am not a meticulous person. I am neurotic and frantic, and so I was thinking maybe just to get ourselves on the same wavelength, a cup of coffee. I would be interested in talking about how he sees himself in Atticus bench more than anything else. He does talk about that as the role of the lifetime. He is like, if that's the one I'm remembered for, I'm very good with that.
I, I like that that. [00:51:00] Is being reimagined now in, in the Aaron Serkin conversion. And I kind of hope that if it really is the number one film character as it is according to the A A FI, that's a character that should be reimagined and rethought as time goes on. And so I'd be curious to talk with him perhaps on the set of, to Kill a Mockingbird at the cup of coffee, of what are the most durable characteristics of this character.
What do you feel like you best bring to it? Where do you see yourself and where, what are your points of departure?
Nichelle: That's
Michael: me.
Nichelle: I went cocktail. Okay. Like, didn't even have a second thought cocktail you
Michael: want to drink? All
Nichelle: right. And
Michael: what's the setting? Yes.
Nichelle: I'm gonna be having an old fashioned, he's gonna be having a Guinness from his in-home tap.
Michael: I love this. Yeah,
Nichelle: so he's very proud of his Irish roots, and I think it was a friend or a cousin, I believe it was a cousin, was able to work with the Guinness factory in Dublin, and he was like, look, Gregor P, he really loves Guinness, dah da da. Can we just, they brought him and installed in his home a tap, a Guinness tap.
Is [00:52:00] that right? Yeah. Oh dude. Oh wow. And so for me, what I want, other than the obvious, um, is to, it is obvious. Yeah. Other than Right. Right. Is to really see him let go of control to see him when he's unbothered about who might be watching and who might be taking notes. Yeah. And what I'm thinking about folks watching and taking notes, I'm thinking of both say his admirers, like I think he would be cleanly aware of young admirers who might be looking to him to kind of live up to an inspirational standard, you know what I mean?
And then also the gossip mongers and the haters. 'cause he was very aware that they were watching and he was very deliberate about making sure that he avoided that as much as possible and kind of managed that as much as possible. So I'd like to see him out of control, unbothered.
Michael: Fantastic. Who knows where that might go?
All right. I think we've arrived. The final category, the Vander beak, named after James Vander Beak, who famously said in varsity blues, I don't want your life. In that varsity blue scene, James [00:53:00] makes a judgment that he does not want a certain kind of life based on just a few characteristics. So here we form a rebuttal to anyone skeptical of how Gregory Peck lived.
I don't know what the null case is here. Exactly. Obviously losing a child to suicide is traumatic. The man lived to 87, I think he was in the entertainment industry, five children. They're not all gonna be perfect, and some trauma is gonna find us. That pain is, I think, unimaginable and is probably the thing that most strikes me about why I would not want this life.
Why else would you not I, it's always good to talk about the counterargument before we make the case for
Nichelle: Yeah. I think the losing a child is probably the biggest one. Yeah.
Michael: Because it
Nichelle: does kind of permeate. Everything, like he says towards the end of his life that, you know, they ask him how does he wanna be remembered?
And he says he wants to be remembered as a father and a husband. Yeah. And later on he talks about the professional accolades, but he really starts with father and husband and he wasn't perfect on either score. [00:54:00] Yeah. So I think that would be, but nobody is, I mean, that's the thing. Exactly. That's the thing.
Michael: There's not a lot of counter-argument stuff here in a way, in that I don't see. Obvious big interpersonal regrets, they may exist. They're not glaring. I don't see big professional regrets, and I think for me, the upward staircase question is always about service and about. Mm-hmm. What did you give back to the stream of life?
So I think let's segue right into that. I mean, I think you can break that apart in a few different ways. In Gregory Peck's story, your thing, number one gentleman's agreement that he creates characters and is involved in stories and in characters of people who demonstrate empathy above all else. And like what it means to consider other points of view regarding power and what it means to defend those who deserve a full throated defense.
That is evident in his. Professional work. I like that you called out gentleman's agreement as thing number one. There you could take service into two or three other [00:55:00] places. One I is that he stands up for good causes. Mm-hmm. His involvement with the A CLU with civil rights, with cancer, like all of that in the category of philanthropy.
And then I think film itself, art itself. Mm-hmm. My thing number two, that's a lot of giving back.
Nichelle: Yeah. I was gonna say, you know, the saying is to whom much is given, much is demanded. And he is one of those people who got a lot, like he got to live to 87, he got to have five children. He did lose one, which is terrible, but he got to have five children.
His relationships, while again, not perfect. The like the divorce was amicable, right? Even with his mother, his mother became a great grandmother to her grandkids, even though she wasn't the best mother to him. So she stayed in his life, right? He got to be one of the biggest stars on the planet when it mattered right before fragmentation, when it's hard to find that, like when it mattered.
He was one of the brightest lights. Yeah. Yeah. So he got a lot.
Michael: But I love the way you began that, [00:56:00] Michelle, like the channeling, you know, this is the big question of life. Are you doing a great accounting, personal accounting of what you've been given and are you giving it back in equal measure? And I mean, he a hundred percent is right.
Or as much as we can, seems like he is again, to make it a famous and gravy thing about us. I don't know that I'm doing that. I know that I, I have been given a lot. I'm probably a little lazy about how much I'm giving it back, you know, and it's a hard thing to do and, and I don't know. It's an important question.
Nichelle: No, I, I hear you. I think for me, that's part of how I got involved in the A CLU was that I wanted to give back on all the issues I care about. And the A CLU is wonderful in that it allows me to be active on every issue I care about, for the most part in one fell swoop. Well,
Michael: you're also involved storytelling.
Yeah, I was gonna say,
Nichelle: the storytelling work that I do, all of my projects are devoted to social justice in some significant way, shape, or form. Like they're driven [00:57:00] by that. Like I'm not here to just kind of, A friend was saying like, you're not here 'cause you just wanna like. Be famous. Like that's not, in fact, the work that I do should never result in me being famous, actually.
Yeah. Yeah. He was like, you're here because you want to communicate a message and tell a story that will hopefully move people to action and leave this world a better place than when I found it. Right. Well,
Michael: lemme say this before I conclude. You help me do that and I'm really grateful to our friendship about that.
I mean, you've, since we've worked together for whatever it is now, four or five years ago, I love hearing about what you're up to and I admire what you're up to. I admire what you're doing and I,
Nichelle: I hope to be a part of it. And I'm not gonna let you off the hook. You will be a part of it. There's no way.
That I would do any of this without you.
Michael: Well, good. Somebody's gotta hold me accountable. All right, well let's, so let's recap. I mean, I think thing number one is service, but in at least three parts I think that he gave back to his industry, I think he gave back to good causes. And I think he gave back, you know, by being a symbol for all these characters.
And then I think number two, your point about [00:58:00] his family life and above all else, I mean, he's got his morals in the right place. So, uh, I don't know that I need to make it more complicated with that. With that, James VanDerBeek, I'm Gregory Peck, and you want my life.
Before we close, if you enjoyed this episode of Famous and Gravy and you're enjoying our show, and if you've got your phone in your hand, please take a moment to share it with a friend. We want to grow our podcast one episode at a time, Michelle, speed round plugs for past shows. If people enjoyed the Gregory Peck episode, what else might they check out for the back catalog?
Sidney Poitier.
Nichelle: Oh, there you go. Yes. Uh, that is a fabulous episode. So one, they're contemporaries. Yeah. So similar in terms of their commanding presence, the legacy of their work. They both have done films that will live on forever. They were both very committ. To service, and they both were conflicted.
Michael: They make you want to go back and watch old [00:59:00] movies too.
All right. Episode 71, defiant One, Sidney Poitier. I had a similar one for similar reasons. I was gonna go with a more recent episode of James Garner. There's a lot in the James Garner story that reminds me of Gregory Peck. So episode 1 0 3, Maverick Lawman, James Garner. Here is a little preview for the next episode of Famous and Gravy.
He described himself to the Denver Post as a loner with few friends whose main company consisted of pet dalmatians and live-in maids. Oh my goodness. I, yeah, no, you, if this
Nichelle: people are getting this one, I'm not getting it.
Michael: Famous and gravy listeners, we love hearing from you. If you wanna reach out with a comment question or to participate in our opening quiz, email us at hello@famousenggravy.com.
In our show notes, we include all kinds of links, including to our website and our social channels. Famous Eng Gravy is created by Amma Kippur and me, Michael Osborne. Thanks so much to my friend, Michelle Carr for guest hosting on this episode. It was produced by Evan Scherer with assistance from Jacob Weiss.
Original music [01:00:00] by Kevin Strang. Thanks. See you next time.